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7.62x54r Reloading Episode 5

Advanced Reloading Techniques for long range shooters and more

7.62x54r Reloading Episode 5

Postby Grimstod » Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:02 am

Time to get deep into the advanced reloading stuff. How short should your brass be? Should you just go by the book value? Watch to find out.

Watch on youtube.com
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Re: 7.62x54r Reloading Episode 5

Postby Shepard » Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:00 am

Very well done. I'm glad you picked up on this and did the video. It shows that the books are very conservative. This also allows you to use lighter bullets and still get a good amount of brass on the bullet to hold it in the case. Just remember whatever your measurement comes to -- keep the brass about .015 shorter then your cut chamber length. This will keep you in a safe zone should any copper fouling or debris buildup, pinching the case neck tight can causing a pressure spike.
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Re: 7.62x54r Reloading Episode 5

Postby ShootnMathews » Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:27 am

I use lapua brass. I think it'll wear out before it stretches long enough to reach the end of the chamber. I've fired it 4 times and my trimmer is just now touching brass and the trimmer is much shorter than the chamber.

I'm using a mild load which minimizes stretch also. Maybe if I were loading it at the rifles max it might stretch faster.

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Re: 7.62x54r Reloading Episode 5

Postby Grimstod » Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:06 am

Jared How much stretch do you get per shot? Mine are about .009-12 per shot. But it slows down as it gets longer. Probably cause it's not annealed anymore.

If you take good care of your brass and use a bushing neck sizing die you will get more then 50 loads out of a shell
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Re: 7.62x54r Reloading Episode 5

Postby ShootnMathews » Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:12 pm

Grimstod wrote:Jared How much stretch do you get per shot? Mine are about .009-12 per shot. But it slows down as it gets longer. Probably cause it's not annealed anymore.

If you take good care of your brass and use a bushing neck sizing die you will get more then 50 loads out of a shell

Ben. I have not measured the stretch of each firing, but the lapua is 53 instead of 54. I'd say it was around 1 - 1.5 mm from my trimmer when new and it's taken 4 firing to start touching the trimmer. I just use a lee trimmer and it works well enough at this point. Once they reach the trimmer I know they are always the same. That's one thing I don't like about the adjustable trimmers. Yes you can adjust them to a custom length of brass. BUT each time you adjust it to a new caliber and then back you're never going to get it EXACTLY right. Very close, yes, but exactly, no. That's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

The runout is usually in the seating die. You can have all the brass holding the bullet you can get but if the die is seating with a fraction of cant then there always will be run out. The most effective way of battling runout is with a measuring/truing device. Which I will buy one day because they are worth they weight in gold for precision shooting in my book. Especially with high BC VLD style match bullets.

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Re: 7.62x54r Reloading Episode 5

Postby Grimstod » Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:48 pm

Jared my next reloading video will be on how to set up and reload with the forster bench rest seating die and body die. Should be fun as there are a few things that you have to watch for in setting them up. The forster seating die is one of the best available for minimizing runout. Only thing better is a hydraulic centering die and that is a totally different animal.

Lees brass cutting tool is the worst one out there. Nothing personal I just don't like it at all. I don't think its constant from firing to firing.

Now that I have said this I had better explain why. The tool measures off the flash hole. This is not always consistent from shell to shell. Its internal to so if you have some thick brass then you trimming length will change. This is also a volital part of the shell. You can see in the animation that it can move back with each firing. I bet if your took a caliper to you trimmed brass you might even find some variance.
Image

Also, the cup thickness in the bass of the shell is different from lot to lot and especially different from manufacturer to manufacturer.

Another thing I don't like about them is that if you debure you flash hole you remove brass and then you brass trimmer will cut even more brass off the neck.

If you using an adjustable trimmer its just a matter of setting it up correctly to get consistency. My Redding lathe has a micrometer. I can write down what I need for each gun and just turn it to that setting down to the .001th every time.

Finally, if your chamber is measured and cut with a reamer from headspace to the neck then you need to measure that. Not off an internal component.
That said my next reloading tool to make will be something that uniforms the thickness of the rim on the 7.62x54r. From lot to lot they can varie. And if uniforming them all allows me to set up a tighter chamber and headspacing to minimize stretch and where. Why not. :D
Image


Nextvideo I will put up will be a penetration test using bullet proof bank teller glass. I have three panels. We shall see if the bank teller services. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: Should be really fun!
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Re: 7.62x54r Reloading Episode 5

Postby Shepard » Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:07 pm

Thank you for the picture above on the head spacing illustration. Although it changes ever so little there is a certain amount of stretch in the action of a gun from bench build to first 100 rounds of service. The motion illustrated in the picture of the brass igniting the powder as moving backwards. When it does it fireforms itself to the chamber. It with re form the front shoulder longer and made it difficult to chamber. This is why no matter what form of resizing of your brass you use - there is a need for full resizing every 3-4 loads.

When I setup a Mosins chamber in a target rifle I use the head spacing rules of both worlds. Rimmed and Rimless. Because the head spacing dimensions are generous there is a lot of room to work with.The motion illustrated below is about .004-.005 --- the rim on the barrel face to the bolt face. This is the spacing of your go gauge. If the builder sets the chamber shallow -- leaves .001-.002 between the rim and the barrel face -- this means the cartridge is sitting on its shoulder. The bolt will close on the go gauge --- Will Not close on the no/go gauge but will hold the case so there is as limited motion as possible -- .002-.003.

Completed head space is established like a rimless case -- front shoulder to bolt face. This will keep your cartridge from getting stretched out which will lead to case separations in the side walls.
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Re: 7.62x54r Reloading Episode 5

Postby ShootnMathews » Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:34 pm

No offense taken Ben but I have to disagree with your explanation of how the lee trimmer works. The shell holder when tightened holds the base of the brass tight against the steel face. Then the pin of the trimmer sticks through the primer hole to the steel face. It does not rest at all on the flash hole or brass. The length it trims is from the shell holder face to the cutter. Ill see if I can find a cut away picture or diagram to show it. Or I'll just cut up an old brass to show.

Jared
Edit. Pic added. Shell holder holds brass base tight against steel face
image.jpg




Looking forward to the forester die video. Never used those dies before.
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Re: 7.62x54r Reloading Episode 5

Postby ShootnMathews » Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:12 pm

I remover cutter head and stuck the trim length stem into brass so you can see it clearly protrudes from the brass. I haven't loaded anything for a while and you can actually see where the pin cleaned the tarnish off of the steel face when I trimmed this piece.
image.jpg
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Re: 7.62x54r Reloading Episode 5

Postby ShootnMathews » Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:15 pm

All assembled on a trimmed piece of brass
image.jpg
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