It is currently Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:52 pm
Change font size
Southern California Mosin Owners The Forum For Mosin Nagant Enthusiasts Worldwide!

Mosin Nagant Modders Forum

first time mosin mod.... looking for some info.

Modders forum, tips, tricks and more..

first time mosin mod.... looking for some info.

Postby tx*mosin*modder » Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:06 am

Here's what I have thus far.... russian m91/30, manufactured in 1942. Put a rock solid industry extended rail and their turn down bolt. Running it in an archangel stock.my scope is an IJK 8x32x56 w/side paralax. Me and a buddy adjusted the factory trigger to 3lb- pull and is EXTREMELY crisp with 0 take up.

I know that in 1942 they were rushi g production, so tolerances where loose. Before the gun heats up, I can put the bullet in the same hole at 100yrds. It appears the chamber is loose, for one reason or another(I compared spent shells with another mosin's spent shells, and mine were expanding quite a bit more even at the start). My fix for this.... just bought a chromoly, 28", contoured 1.2"-1" bull barrel with 1 in 10" twist from shilen barrels.

If there is any further advice on setup, id be glad to hear it! Im just getting started, and have a range out to 700, but can currently be accurate at 500.
Random avatar
tx*mosin*modder
Marksman
Marksman
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:38 am
Kudos Given: 1 time
Kudos  Received: 9 times

Re: first time mosin mod.... looking for some info.

Postby Grimstod » Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:46 pm

I don't recommend crimping. It will hurt accuracy. Read any reloading book. They all, say the same thing. Crimping is detrimental to accuracy.

Sounds like you got a good deal. I have a shilen. Shots petty good at 7in 5 shot group 1000yards. It's a 308x54r
What the bore on the shilen you got?
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit."
Aristotle
User avatar
Grimstod
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 1872
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:53 pm
Location: Upstate NY
Kudos Given: 297 times
Kudos  Received: 262 times
Medals: 7
Custom Builders Guild (2) NRA Member (1) Finnish Variant (1)
1000 Yard Shoot (1) Video Award (1) Mosin Nagant Channel Videograp (1)

Re: first time mosin mod.... looking for some info.

Postby tx*mosin*modder » Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:52 pm

Sorry, didnt realize I was PM'ing you. Tryi g to figure out how to post a pic of my gun! Lol.... I went with a .311 bore. I figured that would be best out of what they offered. The next size down was a .308, which I was told would be over pressurized with the surplus ammo I want to shoot for now.
Random avatar
tx*mosin*modder
Marksman
Marksman
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:38 am
Kudos Given: 1 time
Kudos  Received: 9 times

Re: first time mosin mod.... looking for some info.

Postby Grimstod » Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:52 pm

There are more reamers available for the 311. When your ready to rent one let me know. I know who has the best reamer. 99% of the readers out there for 7.26x54r have problems and are not spaced correctly.

Make sure your smith can true up the receiver lugs and face. Chasing the threads is another plus.
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit."
Aristotle
User avatar
Grimstod
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 1872
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:53 pm
Location: Upstate NY
Kudos Given: 297 times
Kudos  Received: 262 times
Medals: 7
Custom Builders Guild (2) NRA Member (1) Finnish Variant (1)
1000 Yard Shoot (1) Video Award (1) Mosin Nagant Channel Videograp (1)

Re: first time mosin mod.... looking for some info.

Postby tx*mosin*modder » Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:54 pm

Will do! Im going to be talking with him tomorrow. Can you give me the name/info of the correct reamer(s)? I may need to make sure he knows as well.
Random avatar
tx*mosin*modder
Marksman
Marksman
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:38 am
Kudos Given: 1 time
Kudos  Received: 9 times

Re: first time mosin mod.... looking for some info.

Postby 0933 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:12 pm

tx*mosin*modder wrote:Here's what I have thus far.... russian m91/30, manufactured in 1942. Put a rock solid industry extended rail and their turn down bolt. Running it in an archangel stock.my scope is an IJK 8x32x56 w/side paralax. Me and a buddy adjusted the factory trigger to 3lb- pull and is EXTREMELY crisp with 0 take up.

I know that in 1942 they were rushi g production, so tolerances where loose. Before the gun heats up, I can put the bullet in the same hole at 100yrds. It appears the chamber is loose, for one reason or another(I compared spent shells with another mosin's spent shells, and mine were expanding quite a bit more even at the start). My fix for this.... just bought a chromoly, 28", contoured 1.2"-1" bull barrel with 1 in 10" twist from shilen barrels.

If there is any further advice on setup, id be glad to hear it! Im just getting started, and have a range out to 700, but can currently be accurate at 500.


Sounds like your rifle is pretty typical for a wartime Russian Mosin Nagant. The change in impact from a cold barrel to a hot barrel is due to the stress imparted into the rifle barrel when they bored and rifled it... as the barrel heats up, it expands and warps.

Re-barreling her will definitely improve accuracy. A heavy barrel has more thermal stability and the amplitude of heavy barrel harmonics are less than pencil thin barrel. Shilen has a pretty good reputation (as well as others) and the QC is up there where I would expect a solid shooter from her (though every barrel maker can, and has turned out bad barrels).

I've only got two things to add... the first is about your stock. Once you put a heavy barrel on her, you may or may not be happy with the Archangel. The forend isn't as rigid as it could be, and that might give you fits when you add a beefier barrel. Also the rear action screw threads into a blind nut, and I've seen more than one work loose. There are some hardwood, and laminate aftermarket stocks for the Mosin, and you shouldn't have a problem with any of them. If you're dead set on a synthetic, then I would suggest buying an un-inletted McMillan ( https://www.mcmillanusa.com/mcmillan-rifle-stocks/ ) , and having an experienced smith inlet it for your Mosin. The second thing I would add is to upgrade your scope... IJK is a pretty cheap scope. I'm not a glass snob... but when it comes to optics, Japan is good and China is bad. If you are planning on shooting long range with any regularity then you need a scope with positive/consistent/accurate click values, 100% tracking, and decent clarity. The IJK doesn't have a good reputation with any of those. If you're happy with yours, then great... but I can guarantee there will be a day that you won't be. For about the same price point you can pick up a fixed power SWFA SS, and those are a GREAT affordable scope that will stay with you forever. Here is the link http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-Scopes-C1719.aspx

Good luck and keep us posted! :thumbup:

Grimstod wrote:I don't recommend crimping. It will hurt accuracy. Read any reloading book. They all, say the same thing. Crimping is detrimental to accuracy.

Sounds like you got a good deal. I have a shilen. Shots petty good at 7in 5 shot group 1000yards. It's a 308x54r
What the bore on the shilen you got?


Yep, crimping will hurt accuracy... guaranteed.

Here's a 100 yd five shot group with re-loads that ARE crimped.

Image

Here's two consecutive five shot groups, both at 100 yds... that ammo was crimped too.

Image

Here's another five shot group at 100 yds... yep, I shot this with ammo that was crimped too.

Image

ALL these were shot with the 7.62x54R from a Mosin Nagant rifle, and the second two pictures posted, I did NO load work-up previous.

Crimping is an old trick that CAN improve accuracy if you are not seating your bullets close to the lands. If you're bullets are jumping more than 0.040" to the lands, then crimping will hold the bullet a fraction of a hundredth of a second longer and usually provide a more consistent pressure curve.

Grimstod wrote:There are more reamers available for the 311. When your ready to rent one let me know. I know who has the best reamer. 99% of the readers out there for 7.26x54r have problems and are not spaced correctly.

Make sure your smith can true up the receiver lugs and face. Chasing the threads is another plus.


There is nothing wrong with the 7.62x54R reamers out there. They don't have problems, and there is no way that they 'are not spaced correctly.' Every reamer manufacturer posts the dimensions of there reamers, if you don't like the dimensions... get a custom reamer. EVERY reamer manufacturer out there does custom work.

The first pic I posted (look above) was shot with a rifle using the original barrel and chamber that is 0.015" oversize in the shoulder, 0.020" oversize in the body, and a throat w/ 0.164" jump. The last group I posted above, was shot from a rifle that I built, and used a PTG reamer to cut the chamber... Doesn't look like any problem to me. :lolno:

Truing and blueprinting an action is nice, and definitely won't hurt accuracy... but the Mosin Nagant utilizes a forged receiver, w/ integral recoil lug, and floating bolthead. This action is completely different than a rem 700 which absolutely needs blueprinted for consistency. With the floating bolthead you have equal lug contact, and the integral recoil lug removes a crucial variable in the receiver/recoil lug/barrel contact. Accept for truing the receiver face perpendicular to the threads, you won't see any functional accuracy difference by truing a Mosin Nagant period!

Every single group I posted above was shot with a rifle that was not trued or blueprinted. :yawn:
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." Thomas Jefferson
User avatar
0933
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 832
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:40 pm
Location: Prescott, AZ
Kudos Given: 267 times
Kudos  Received: 300 times
Medals: 13
Custom Builders Guild (1) Master Builder Award (3) Zombie Shoot (1)
NRA Member (1) Haller Shoot Award (1) Finnish Variant (1)
1000 Yard Shoot (1) Benefactor Award (1) Video Award (1)
Mosin Nagant Channel Videograp (1) Mosin Hunters (1)

Re: first time mosin mod.... looking for some info.

Postby tx*mosin*modder » Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:45 pm

Thats awesome! Thanks for the info! Tje guy who owns rock solid is who told me about crimping. Everythingbhes told me thus far has been pretty darn accurate! I haven't tried crimping yet, but that day osnt too far out. My old barrel slugs right at 313. I took a micrometer to some bullets and found 3 bullets that were slightly overs sized (about .313). I had two in the exact same hole, maybe a 16th" off, and one about an 8th" off.... I hope I can reproduce that with the new barrel!

I havent had any issues so far with the archangel stock. Ran about 600-700 rounds through it. I also lock tight everything.

The ijk scope has been pretty good thus far. Ive beenapping my "clicks" and mil dots. I was able to zero at 100, dial 16 clicks up to theoretically zero at 200, then aim down to 500. Once aiming at 500 at 32×mag, my mildots accounted for about 8" between. Based on the infonive read, zeroed at 20p means 48" of drop with the ammo im running. Using my mildots, I compensated and hit my target.... I was pretty happy to do that on the fly. However, by noeans is that tuning in to a spread of inches. It was a fairlynlarge target! (20"+)....

Im hopeful! Lol


Thanks for the info, I will definitely look into it!
Random avatar
tx*mosin*modder
Marksman
Marksman
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:38 am
Kudos Given: 1 time
Kudos  Received: 9 times

Re: first time mosin mod.... looking for some info.

Postby ShootnMathews » Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:16 pm

I do agree that crimping does help, especially if you are jumping your bullets very far. As 0933 said it creates a much more consistent arch on your pressure curve. If you add some sort of consistent crimp arm ( just a torque wrench retro fitted to a press) while crimping it even helps compensate for brass with poor uniformity in neck thickness. Basically helps give you a more consistent neck tension along with a better pressure curve. Now is crimping the BEST way? Not really. You'll get better Results if you fire form your case, neck size it, trim it to length, turn the neck, neck size it a second time, uniform your primer pocket, then weight sort your brass and cull 25% that are off keeping creme of the crop. Then you'll shave at least a 1/4" if not more off of your crimped loads. Is all that work worth it ? That all depends on what you want out of your rifle. Hit a milk jug at 500 or hit an egg at 500. My mosin is my fun gun that i can go out and shoot WITHOUT spending hours reloading. I can size my brass, trim, load and crimp. Dial my Turret and put a cold bore hit on a 12" gong at 750 yards. And thats why my mosin is more fun than My other long range guns. And that is my honest opinion.

I also agree that the heavy barrel might be too much for the archangel stock. Your barrel is in respects a lever with the recoil lug area being the fulcrum and your rear action screw takes the pressure that the lever creates. Heavier barrel = more pressure at the rear screw. More pressure = bad news with that molded in blind nut. Just my 2 cents.

Don't take any of what any of us say as an offense, we are only trying to help. But if you are happy with your scope, do a box test to check her. That will either confirm for you that she is a good scope. Or bring to light that she is not. It's only 5 shots and 3 minutes. No need to guess about it.

Good luck. Keep us informed. And remember, no question is a dumb one, because some things are costly to undo. Wished I had asked a few more before modding my first one.

Jared
User avatar
ShootnMathews
Range Master
Range Master
 
Posts: 1261
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:14 pm
Location: WV
Kudos Given: 363 times
Kudos  Received: 274 times
Medals: 5
Custom Builders Guild (1) NRA Member (1) Winner Haller Shoot (1)
Mosin Nagant Channel Videograp (1) Mosin Hunters (1)

Re: first time mosin mod.... looking for some info.

Postby tx*mosin*modder » Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:02 pm

I took the reciever, bolt, and new barrel to the gunsmith today. He notuced and issue that I was unaware of. The bolts arent meeting up clean in/to the reciever. Hes gonna get the new barrel on and clean up the contact points.

.....should be a pretty big improvement when I get it back! Also gave me some tip to strengthen the stock after I fit my barrel in it....
Image
Random avatar
tx*mosin*modder
Marksman
Marksman
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:38 am
Kudos Given: 1 time
Kudos  Received: 9 times

Re: first time mosin mod.... looking for some info.

Postby Shepard » Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:03 am

Depending on how Bull your barrel is -- mine are 1.200 - 1.250 in diameter depending on how they true up when turning in my lathe. You don't have to float a barrel that heavy. In some cases it doesn't do anything but put more unneeded stress on the stock. I'm not saying this is the best way to go -- but I'm doing just fine and if you notice -- your AA stock comes with a tension device to add upward pressure on the barrel. If you go the way of the AA stock - my suggestion is not floating the barrel. Like the others have said -- the rear action screw doesn't not go into the magwell - it goes into a insert bonded in the plastic. The upward thrust on the rear screw is much more then you think. With the stock barrel it's fine -- add a 26-30 inch bull barrel and your asking for problems right when you don't need them.
I walk in the foot steps of Carlos Hathcock -- to my end.
User avatar
Shepard
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 1959
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:38 am
Location: Upstate New York
Kudos Given: 288 times
Kudos  Received: 261 times
Medals: 11
Master Builder Award (4) NRA Member (1) Dart Board Challenge (1)
Target Haller Author (1) 1000 Yard Shoot (1) Benefactor Award (1)
Video Award (1) Mosin Nagant Channel Videograp (1)

Next

Return to Mosin Nagant Modders Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 4 guests

cron

Search

User Menu

Who is online

In total there are 5 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 4 guests (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 119 on Sat Nov 08, 2014 6:29 pm

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 4 guests